From Christopher Morris Wed May 7 18:10:41 1997
* Jasmine Sailing wrote:
** Amidst a schizophrenic delusion of grandeur, Chris Morris
** swore:
** Trying to stir up the hornet's nest, are we?
* Always...
God love ya.
* A lot of people would argue that it's more noble to argue for the
* deaths of the deranged because that would be in the best interest
* of everyone else. That's if it's status quo. I don't think so...
Don't know if you know this or not, but (I swear to God) this is how the Nazis started. They (via various means of propaganda) convinced the German public that "only the strong should survive", it's nature's way, etc, and that mentally ill and retarded people (among others) needed to be weeded out. The removal of such "weaklings" from the gene pool would, in time, ensure a healthier, stronger German race. (It was, of course, a small jump for the Nazis to convince their public that Jews and homosexuals (etc) were also included in the ever-growing group of People To Be Weeded Out.)
The problem with this line of thinking is that it's absolutely true. It's convincing because it works. Deleting "bad" genes will no doubt ensure a stronger human race (in time). This is why the German public fell for it, and why it's so scary now. This sort of genocide does indeed work, but -- and this is what the Germans ignored -- it's simply not humane. We can't do this sort of societal engineering. It's morally wrong. Any sensible adult sees the truth in this and rallies against it. So I agree with you a hundred percent so far, Jasmine.
* I think everyone is flipping out in some way and society just gets
* more and more intense as it gets more rammed together. People
* will continue to snap at faster rates, and it'll be every type of
* person who does. I've watched too many intelligent and
* wonderful people go down this path because they fell apart.
Perhaps we're talking merely about overpopulation here (which is, in my opinion, the single most significant --and single most ignored -- problem facing humanity in the upcoming century. Yep. You're right again. More people -are- going to snap from the pressure of an intense and highly fragmented culture. No argument.
* On the religion angle, though, about the only thing I want there is
* for people to accept that Heaven's Gate is no weirder of a religion
* than Christianity is. There's seriously nothing more wacky to
* waiting for a UFO to take you to Heaven than to waiting for
* angels and the dead son of God to do it.
No argument. Clearly.
* Now, granted, society considers it a lot more healthy to be
* murderous than suicidal.
Are you sure? If you're saying here that suicides are more made-fun-of than murderers, I'm pretty sure you're wrong. Personally, I'm an equal-opportunity wise-ass, myself.
* Personally, though, if there seriously was a gene that caused people
* to keep to their own selves and kill their own selves religiously...
* I would be for purging it INTO the gene pool rather than out of
* it. We need a little more of that in this happy world.
As pleasant as that would be, I find it difficult to believe any "self- destructive" gene would last very long in -any- gene pool.
* No, I'm not keen on religious genocide. I don't think it's funny that
* it's happened. I don't think it's funny that people want it to keep
* happening. I don't get very amused that freaks on the gene pool
* removal list are going to sit here laughing until it's no longer a
* joke. They can do that though. And, while it's their right to do
* that, it's my right to express my distaste about it.
Absolutely. I'll defend your right to express distaste (to the death, if necessary -- I'm big on free speech). But I'll also defend their right to laugh at them.
* Of course they stopped laughing as much when I got fed up and
* told them I'm bisexual... it's no fun when it gets personal.
What I'm getting a sense of here, Jasmine, is that perhaps you identify too much with Heaven's Gate folks. Maybe when people make fun of suicidal folks with off-center religious ideas, you get defensive, because (as you just said) it's not fun when it gets personal. If that's true, then point taken. But it must be said that when you're making fun (yourself) of "the most stupid accidental death", there's somebody out there taking -that- personally too. We all get defensive about something. That's how political correctness works.
* The PCers are gonna LOVE this because it's ok to make fun of
* kooks, but it's not ok to make fun of unfortunate stupid people.
* With any luck, they'll combine it and get the PCers laughing
* more openly at stupid people.
Political correctness only works in the general, and not specific, sense. Here's what I mean. Tim falls down the stairs, everybody laughs. No one has a problem with that (because it's specific). If Tim were gay, or Tim were black, say, then it gets general, and now everybody's laughing at a gay (or black) man falling down the stairs -- and that's politically incorrect, and somehow (in today's society) morally wrong. If the PCers only understood that -groups- have zero rights in this country -- no group does -- and that only -individuals- do, maybe we'd be getting somewhere.
* I can see where people would think HG is stupid for being suicidal.
* It is not okay to be suicidal and anyone who is is worthless trash
* needing to be purged anyway. Feeble in the brain. I don't see how
* that quite equates to getting murdered by the government or shot
* in the back of the head though.
I think it equates in the sense that if you're standing up for freedom of religion, or press, or speech, and you fight the government, well, God bless ya. If, however, you make a stand against the government to defend your right to worship speed bumps with cottage cheese poured on 'em, well, sorry, you're gonna get made fun of, and people are gonna say, gosh, I'm sure glad -that- fucker's out of the gene pool.
* Kinda surprised no one has mentioned Koresh since that's the one
* I've bellowed about the most.
Don't know enough about the Koresh thing to say anything. Sorry.
* For one thing, I never said anything about legislation. I would
* NEVER want legislation on it. I would NEVER try to stop the
* Darwin awards from going for the Yup appeal they want. What
* people seem to be having a hard time realizing here is that I'm
* stating my opinion. People can say "Hey, you're right". People
* can say "You're an upstart idiot, you need to be purged from the
* gene pool". People can laugh. People can do whatever the hell
* they want. I'm saying how I feel about this, and obviously I'm
* very far down in the minority.
I don't think you're that far down in the minority, Jasmine. Most people, I think, are only gonna say something about this if they have a joke, or something nasty to say. I think you're gonna have a hard time finding fellow believers when what you're doing (at least at first glance) looks like defending cult-weirdos.
* If it makes people uncomfortable that I have bad things to say
* about this, then they probably have a few things to think about.
* Good. I love it when people think. That's all I ask, no matter
* which conclusions are reached in the end.
I hope you succeed. Everybody needs to think a little more, in my opinion.
* Yeah. Each angle is an opinion of it. I want to get a collection of
* thoughts together on this for the website. If you don't mind yours
* being seen and want them used, let me know. I'd like to have
* every angle of this covered.
Use away. I don't mind.
* Ok. Now, for the record, I know I'm every bit as much of a kook as
* the HG people, the Koresh people, etc. I have weird religious
*beliefs that I don't tell ANYONE and that's probably for the best
* as I have a slight aversion to padded cells. I have hostile views
* toward the government. And, for the worst of it, I have
* self-destructive tendencies.
Don't identify -too- strongly with 'em, Jasmine. We need people like you around. ;)
* I think everyone in the world is going to just keep laughing. But
* if one little pipsqueak wants to pop up and suggest that, perhaps,
* sometimes it might be nice if screwed up people could get a little
* more help and a little less ridicule...
Maybe the people laughing are screwed up too. We could all use a little help, I think.
* We aren't going to get legislation saying you can't laugh at people
* like this. Eventually we probably will have legislation for the
* eugenics of people like this. It is already standard operation to
* ENCOURAGE it. How long is it going to take to enforce it?
Ask the Nazis.
Later...